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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 25, 2012 13:12:29 GMT -5
Turns out tissue paper-thin skinned Brian Manzella doesn't have the stomach anymore for allowing others to see and comment on the swings of his students:  Hoss, if you can't stand the heat...you know the rest. Jeff |
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Post by footwedge on Jan 25, 2012 13:28:37 GMT -5
The funny part is Manzollo doesn't want Robert thinking about stupid stuff he would never say.......ah it's a little bit too late for that!
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Post by golfdad on Jan 25, 2012 13:28:40 GMT -5
I have always liked Kevin Shields' golf swing, those on Youtube. Probably even better now, so too bad Brian does not allow Kevin to put up more in the future. I have also liked Gahm's swing and given deserved compliments. Isn't sharing swings part of learning and teaching if not rightfully so showing off one's effort and work?. I don't understand how Brian is becoming sensitive about this particular aspect of learning and teaching all of a sudden... It's all your fault, Jeff!  As far as the pro's swing,,,hello, does this guy play in public? |
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Post by gatorgolf on Jan 25, 2012 16:36:26 GMT -5
This seems very strange. Why wont he just put up the before and after? Even if people did rip the swing, how is that gonna hurt the players game? It seems like it would take a very mentally fragile person to be affected by what some people they dont even know say about their swing. I also thought it was interesting Brian used "we" when wrote the "swing is NOT going up until we win something of note". Doesnt he mean when "Robert" wins something of note, because if and when that happens Brian wont be hitting any shots or making any putts.
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Post by golfdad on Jan 25, 2012 16:55:14 GMT -5
This seems very strange. Why wont he just put up the before and after? Even if people did rip the swing, how is that gonna hurt the players game? It seems like it would take a very mentally fragile person to be affected by what some people they dont even know say about their swing. I also thought it was interesting Brian used "we" when wrote the "swing is NOT going up until we win something of note". Doesnt he mean when "Robert" wins something of note, because if and when that happens Brian wont be hitting any shots or making any putts. Hello gator,,,I can accept not putting up before and after if they did not really plan it that way or thought of presenting it in that format, although your suggestion makes sense to me. The reference to "we" is also understandable if they consider it team work. In terms of not showing swings, perhaps they just don't want to give Jeff more materials to work with, but the golf world of teaching suffers  Perhaps "they" value achievement or accomplishment more than what we are more interested: the process. |
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Post by andreaskali on Jan 25, 2012 17:07:02 GMT -5
This seems very strange. Why wont he just put up the before and after? Even if people did rip the swing, how is that gonna hurt the players game? It seems like it would take a very mentally fragile person to be affected by what some people they dont even know say about their swing. I also thought it was interesting Brian used "we" when wrote the "swing is NOT going up until we win something of note". Doesnt he mean when "Robert" wins something of note, because if and when that happens Brian wont be hitting any shots or making any putts. I understand why he won't post his swing. From looking at his trackman numbers he is obviously a good player. There are a lot of great players who are reluctant to hearing thoughts on their swing by anybody others than their coach. Most of them just want to play, without thinking too much about what they are doing. When they are hitting it well, they just want to be on autopilot with a clear head. When they are hitting it bad, they want their coach to "fix" them back to hitting it well again. If his player starts to read the negative and positive comments on his swing he might start thinking way more about what he is doing, and it could hurt his game. |
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 25, 2012 17:37:57 GMT -5
I really don't know why Brian cares what we think, as he so artfully stated we are just amateurs which I don't proclaim to be anything but.
I do think of you post up some numbers and state that this is proof that what they are doing really works (not passing a judgement either way) then before and after would not be unreasonable, even some posters there were looking for the same.
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 25, 2012 17:43:15 GMT -5
This seems very strange. Why wont he just put up the before and after? Even if people did rip the swing, how is that gonna hurt the players game? It seems like it would take a very mentally fragile person to be affected by what some people they dont even know say about their swing. I also thought it was interesting Brian used "we" when wrote the "swing is NOT going up until we win something of note". Doesnt he mean when "Robert" wins something of note, because if and when that happens Brian wont be hitting any shots or making any putts. I understand why he won't post his swing. From looking at his trackman numbers he is obviously a good player. There are a lot of great players who are reluctant to hearing thoughts on their swing by anybody others than their coach. Most of them just want to play, without thinking too much about what they are doing. When they are hitting it well, they just want to be on autopilot with a clear head. When they are hitting it bad, they want their coach to "fix" them back to hitting it well again. If his player starts to read the negative and positive comments on his swing he might start thinking way more about what he is doing, and it could hurt his game. Hey andreas! No sympathetic posts for the Answer Man or no soup for you! Seriously, glad to see you joined "jeffy golf" and are posting. We like to have fun as well as obsess over golf! It is a honor to have good players like you here! Back to Bman. Sure, if "Robert" doesn't want his swing posted on-line, Bman must respect that, but that wasn't Brian's stated reason: Brian decided he didn't want it posted. And, as golfdad pointed out, no more swings of David Toms? Seriously, is Bman going to get one of these for Toms to play and practice in??? That's gonna be one pissed caddy lugging that thing around, especially at a hilly course like Augusta...  Jeff |
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Post by footwedge on Jan 25, 2012 17:56:13 GMT -5
This seems very strange. Why wont he just put up the before and after? Even if people did rip the swing, how is that gonna hurt the players game? It seems like it would take a very mentally fragile person to be affected by what some people they dont even know say about their swing. I also thought it was interesting Brian used "we" when wrote the "swing is NOT going up until we win something of note". Doesnt he mean when "Robert" wins something of note, because if and when that happens Brian wont be hitting any shots or making any putts. I understand why he won't post his swing. From looking at his trackman numbers he is obviously a good player. There are a lot of great players who are reluctant to hearing thoughts on their swing by anybody others than their coach. Most of them just want to play, without thinking too much about what they are doing. When they are hitting it well, they just want to be on autopilot with a clear head. When they are hitting it bad, they want their coach to "fix" them back to hitting it well again. If his player starts to read the negative and positive comments on his swing he might start thinking way more about what he is doing, and it could hurt his game. If that's true which I believe it probably is, why then post his numbers up from Trackman just to show Jeffy up? So BM uses a student who wishes to remain private and doesn't want his swing shown so as to be critiqued but if they win something it's like "hey here's what I did for Robert look at this." Manzoola is hedging his bet, that's the reason. No wins, no one knows who the guy is and no crticisim. The guy wins Manzoola is the greatest teacher on earth yada yada. |
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Post by andreaskali on Jan 26, 2012 9:18:41 GMT -5
Brians states that he doesn't want Robert to hear things about his swing that Brian wouldn't say. I can understand that.
I can also see from the point of view that if Brian is posting his Trackman numbers, why not also post his golf swing.
All I want to say is that most of the greatest players in the world can't tell you what they are doing technically, because they are not interested in knowing. They can probably tell you what they feel they are doing. But "feel isn't real" right.
I also think you can ask most tour pros what they are working on, and they will give you and answer. But if you ask them why they are working on it, they will give you a short answer like: "because then I won't miss it left" or "its easier for me to control the ball".
They won't go in depht with their explanations because they don't really want to know themselves.
My friend, who is a former European Tour Winner and Junior World Champion, travels from Denmark to Florida a couple of times a year to work with Claude Harmon III and the last time he also went to see Chris O'connell. Everytime he has had lessons with them I ask him what they told him, and its always simple stuff like "get into my right hell on the way back" or "keep the club in front of my hands". I then ask him why, and he gives my simple answers like "to get a bigger hip turn" or something of that nature. I'm sure if you ask Claude or Chris why, they will have some much more detailed answers of why they want him to do this or that.
My point is this: Almost every great player I have met wants to shoot the best score possible. And they always want to hit it straight and long. They don't want the details because then they start thinking too much.
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Post by footwedge on Jan 26, 2012 12:48:22 GMT -5
Well I guess the only thing is the question of why did Manzolla show Robert's T.M. #'s. It's transparent his motive is. He want's to one up Kelvin and Jeff end of story. Like Robert has to troll the net to hear his swing critiqued and if he heard something it would ruin him.... has he no confidence in what BM is teaching.... SOUNDS LIKE A CASE OF ...Rabbit Ears.
I don't buy BM's excuse, just don't post anything about him, that way he can remain anonymous. It's BM's ego to show how good of a teacher he is, that's the reason for posting the #'s.
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 26, 2012 14:04:14 GMT -5
andreas- Interesting you mentioned Chris O'Connell. He is a protege of Jim Hardy and I'm told he is equally as good as Jim at quickly getting to the root cause of faulty impact and prescribing an "instantaneous" cure. I've seen Jim do it at seminars, but have never been around Chris. One thing that Carol Mann told me you need to keep in mind with guys like Chris and Jim who mostly teach tour players: tour players are EXCEPTIONAL athletes. Jim or Chris can give them brief, punchy instruction and the tour players can instinctively fill in the gaps. It is sort of like why hyper-mobile Anina can look like Jamie Sadlowski after only a couple of video lessons. Carol wanted more explicit detail from Jim because, as she put it to him, "I'm the worst student you have" (and that's coming from a 40 time winner, US Open champion and hall of famer; but she was 64 at the time)! Jim's response? "I don't do physical therapy", in other words, I don't know the details, figure it out yourself. I think that is a major reason why Jim's theories have been such a bust with the average golfer. If you visit "The Plane Truth" site, the same posters are posting about the same swing issues year after year, even though they are getting "the same" instruction Jim and Chris are giving their tour players! Jim and Chris have been developing for awhile a new method called "The Plane Truth Matrix" that I've been told is pretty much all based off of their work with tour players. I bet it also flops, because ordinary adults don't have the innate physical skills of tour players and require different teaching, a belief confirmed by my personal trainers. I think that is why Kelvin's approach works with handicap players and Bman, Hardy and others flop so often. Telling Brian that is one of the reasons he banned me, just check out this video (don't laugh too hard!): vimeo.com/32293906Jeff |
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 26, 2012 14:27:39 GMT -5
Jeff,
I watched both banning videos, its just clear you guys are on very different pages.
I was surprised and maybe Brian misstated it when talking in the first video but he said that you went to 2 golf schools and you spent only 40 minutes of face time with him total?
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Post by footwedge on Jan 26, 2012 14:52:41 GMT -5
Jeff, I watched both banning videos, its just clear you guys are on very different pages. I was surprised and maybe Brian misstated it when talking in the first video but he said that you went to 2 golf schools and you spent only 40 minutes of face time with him total? Greg you're forgetting in that 40 min Manzilla can fix 8 golfer's so 40 min on one guy is plenty of time according to the best teacher in the world.  |
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 26, 2012 15:01:23 GMT -5
Jeff, I watched both banning videos, its just clear you guys are on very different pages. I was surprised and maybe Brian misstated it when talking in the first video but he said that you went to 2 golf schools and you spent only 40 minutes of face time with him total? That was complete nonsense by Manzella. The spin he was trying to put on it was that, by "only" going to a couple of two-day golf schools, I didn't "really" get to see how he taught. He was just trying to impeach my "understanding" of his skills as an instructor, which is kind of funny, because I told him several times during that period that he, along with Jim Hardy, were the best at "fixing" swings I'd ever seen! (I also told him, after the ban, that neither he nor Jim have the knowledge, IMO and from personal experience, to build world-class swings from scratch.) At the time of the first school, I was a notorious presence on his site and it was clear he wanted to impress me, which he did! At that time we were debating Hardy's theory and I was pummeling him. Obviously, he wanted to "win me over" at that school. I took him to dinner and we played nine holes together the second day. He was the master of the "quick fix", but those never last and his teaching had no long-term influence on me. By the second school, I had already been through Hardy, MORAD and Stack and Tilt a bit, and, once again, he wanted me to go on-line and sing his praises: that I'd gone back to him after trying everybody else. Took him and Jacobs to dinner at that school. Thought about continuing with Mike after that school, but Kelvin's reasearch and writing started to really kick in about then, so I moved on to him. BTW, after dinner at the second school, I got out my set of Speedchains I'd got from Kelvin and had Mike and Brian try them out in the parking lot! Hilarious! They were both aware of Kelvin at the time. This was June 2009, during the US Open week. Anyway, the truth is I got plenty of hands-on attention at both schools, believe me. Jeff |
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Perhaps "they" value achievement or accomplishment more than what we are more interested: the process.