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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 24, 2012 15:56:05 GMT -5
I'm slowly working my way through the AS2 tapes and it is a real eye-opener. Sadly, Manzella apparantly harrassed Proboards about Newton Golf Institute posting some screen caps from the video, so I won't even try share any of the hilarious video here. But the dumbfounded looks some of the panelists have when Brian directs them a question or offers an "interpretation" are priceless! I'm only 40 minutes into the Nesbit presentation and there already have been several classics! What is really strange, though, is it appears that Manzella doesn't really understand what Nesbit is saying. For example, when the topic of the "out-toss" came up, the dialogue went more or less like this: BRIAN to Nesbit while demonstrating the "out-toss" and cast: As you and I have discussed, there is a time to do that [release the angle in the wrists]. If you started doing it early it probably wouldn't help you very much and you can wait too long to do it too, so there is sort of a...NESBIT: Sure if you throw the club out too soon you effectively increase the inertia of the club, I mean it is the mass times the distance that is what the "fight" is [not sure I got that right], so if the club is way out from the beginning, it is much harder to swing through.Does that sound like any swings we've examined a few times already??? NESBIT continues: From a velocity point of view, it is great to keep it inside [demonstrating retaining the lag] and then just let it kick out later in the swing. Sort of like what these guys do?? So based on Nesbit's advice to "keep it inside", which of these two do you think hits it farther?: So, is Dr. Nesbit a closet "handle-dragger"? Of course not. He knows what anyone familiar with rotational forces, or torques, knows: extending the center of mass of an object AWAY from its axis makes the object harder to rotate, even though the mass doesn't change. Moving the center of mass away from the axis INCREASES an object's moment of inertia. So, if you want "velocity", you should minimize the moment of inertia as long as possible, just as Dr. Nesbit says. How do you minimize the moment of inertia of the arms and club? Maximize wrist cock and pull the arms in tight: what one might call creating and retaining lag. Sort of like this: Not this: Jeff
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Post by footwedge on Jan 24, 2012 19:32:11 GMT -5
That's priceless, and remember this out-toss is for extreme lag and handle dragger's because you just have to fix/save Jamie S. from this terrible disease.
Also for all the caster's and throwaway golfer's out there this will help them too... yeah right. I posted over there once you throw it away( out-toss) it doesn't want to come back, you might make a free throw behind you but solid contact with the golf ball will be elusive, most people throw it away to start with, lets add fuel to the fire why don't we.... goofiness in Manzilla Land at it's finest.
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Post by footwedge on Jan 24, 2012 19:37:54 GMT -5
The real reason Manzella cried to Pro Boards is because nmgolfer was exposing their b.s.
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Post by footwedge on Jan 24, 2012 20:05:11 GMT -5
He tried to silence Jeffy by asking Richie to take down Jeff's posts and he cried to proboards about some screen shots but in reality he wanted to silence NMgolfer and Jeff Mann because they kept poking holes in his new method and it's hard to try and plug all those holes, eventually the ship starts to sink. Even the crew had some questions about the captain's sanity, can't have a mutiny on the good ship Manzoola.
Mandrin even made mention of it in a post saying that NMgolfer will just go over to Richie's and Richie will "let" him post over there and then Mandrin made some deragatory comment about Richie,.... smells like fear to me.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 24, 2012 21:13:54 GMT -5
He tried to silence Jeffy by asking Richie to take down Jeff's posts and he cried to proboards about some screen shots but in reality he wanted to silence NMgolfer and Jeff Mann because they kept poking holes in his new method and it's hard to try and plug all those holes, eventually the ship starts to sink. Even the crew had some questions about the captain's sanity, can't have a mutiny on the good ship Manzoola. Mandrin even made mention of it in a post saying that NMgolfer will just go over to Richie's and Richie will "let" him post over there and then Mandrin made some deragatory comment about Richie,.... smells like fear to me. Well if you credit the copyrighted material you should be able to use excerpts and pictures in critical analysis. The problem is proboards just does not want to deal with it so they basically say take it down. If that went to court they would lose IMO, not that I am a lawyer or anything but just about everything is copyrighted, there would be no journalism if you could not excerpt and comment, critique works by another individual.
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 24, 2012 23:13:38 GMT -5
Looks like Shields doesn't know what Nesbit was talking about either! So, Kevin, what did Dr. Nesbit mean by "keeping it inside"?? Or were you taking a bathroom break during that part of the presentation?? Jeff
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Post by footwedge on Jan 24, 2012 23:33:34 GMT -5
He tried to silence Jeffy by asking Richie to take down Jeff's posts and he cried to proboards about some screen shots but in reality he wanted to silence NMgolfer and Jeff Mann because they kept poking holes in his new method and it's hard to try and plug all those holes, eventually the ship starts to sink. Even the crew had some questions about the captain's sanity, can't have a mutiny on the good ship Manzoola. Mandrin even made mention of it in a post saying that NMgolfer will just go over to Richie's and Richie will "let" him post over there and then Mandrin made some deragatory comment about Richie,.... smells like fear to me. Well if you credit the copyrighted material you should be able to use excerpts and pictures in critical analysis. The problem is proboards just does not want to deal with it so they basically say take it down. If that went to court they would lose IMO, not that I am a lawyer or anything but just about everything is copyrighted, there would be no journalism if you could not excerpt and comment, critique works by another individual. I agree, the evidence is there , ban Jeffy from the summit and try and shut him up at Richie's and then do the same to Nmgolfer and Jeff Mann. All from the rooftop shouters calling everyone to challenge their experts and they will answer all the questions, but when the time came to put up they tried to shut people up.
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Post by richie3jack on Jan 24, 2012 23:57:59 GMT -5
Where the BS comes is the fact that nmgolfer and I don't always agree. In fact, we had a disagreement about the entire CF vs. CP release stuff. My point of contention was that nmgolfer said that CF and CP exist as a verb and that MORAD's use of it is from a verb standpoint from my experience. I mean, I've never had George tell me to 'use more centripetal force and less centrifugal force' in the swing. When we've talked about CP, it's mostly in reference to the low point, path and plane.
We just had a bit of a disagreement on attack angle with the driver.
But, we are civil and mature adults that can accept the fact that we may disagree and respect our opinions.
The only screaming from the rooftops is taking potshots at people and usually Lynn Blake is the favorite target, a guy who tries to avoid Manzella at all possible costs. Yet, they can't help but continue to go after him. Now it's onto Jeffy and to a lesser extent, myself.
It still doesn't expurgate the fact that Mandrin aped nmgolfer's work and tried to claim it as his own. Those unbiased 'spectators' have agreed with me.
It still doesn't erase the fact that Mike Finney went to me and tried to tell me that Mandrin was Dr. Robert Grober which can only be assumed that he did so thinking I would drop it and leave Mandrin alone.
As I posted over on my forum, I tend to leave it like Daulton said in Roadhouse when one bouncer asked 'what if somebody calls my momma a whore?'
'Is she?'
In this situation we have people questioning Brian's work and his stooges figuratively try to thump somebody over the head and throw them out of the bar. Now people are calling his work 'a whore' and things got ugly.
All part of the Manzella vortex.
3JACK
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Post by footwedge on Jan 25, 2012 1:11:38 GMT -5
@ Richie just a little clarification, My reference to nmgolfer and Mann is in regards to the shutting down of the NGI forum, caused by Manzilla's complaints.
The screaming from the rooftops is in reference to the invitation to come to their anti-summit and challenge their experts and when Jeffy did challenge them they banned him from the forum and attending the summit.
The Manzoola Vortex? Sounds about right.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 25, 2012 14:11:29 GMT -5
Speaking of Lag I am battling a poster over at GWX on the subject. Must be a rickie fowler fan and I touched a nerve, or I just suck at making my point.
Here was my last post on why RF is not someone with lots of Lag, at least not in my book because he dumps a lot of it.
If there is one thing I learned from Kelvin's articles, well there is lots actually, is that not all Lag is created equal. These super duper laggy swings only mean so much.
I can see this is going nowhere but I have little doubt that laggy swing and ahtleticsm of Fowler produces more clubhead speed.
My point is its all thrown away at impact.
I don't think Tom's is holding onto sheit....In fact I think he is maximising the speed he does generate BECAUSE he does not throw it away, exactly my point when I chimed into this thread. There is clubhead lag, which as you pointed out produces more swing speed, then there is delivering that lag into impact and getting the most out of it, which was my point.
Can you explain why Tom's hold on swing, rather than "swingers swing" with more lag produces these numbers
Tom's SS avg pga 11' = 106.15 Fowler SS avg pga 11' = 114.98
Avg distance Tom's 11' = 297 Avg Fowler distance 11' = 299
Driving efficiency Tom's ranked 3rd, Fowler a very respectable 22.
Now if we go to accuracy with the two because I think the numbers point out who is much more efficient.
Toms 6th at 72% Fowler 157th at 57%
I rest my case.
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Post by teeace on Jan 25, 2012 14:16:42 GMT -5
I think it's not question of lag in that situation. Fowler has so many other faults in his swing than lag.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 25, 2012 14:26:40 GMT -5
I think it's not question of lag in that situation. Fowler has so many other faults in his swing than lag. well thats the "why" in the dump, we are just talking about lag in a golf swing. Fowler has a bunch of things he overcomes, which hey its great that he can.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 26, 2012 14:00:03 GMT -5
So now the guy throws up a bunch of pictures of Sadlowski and throws the "You probably don't know who this is" at me............I mean why is it if you disagree or are having a discussion people assume that they just must know more than you?
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 26, 2012 14:11:29 GMT -5
I mean why is it if you disagree or are having a discussion people assume that they just must know more than you?Because its GolfWRX! Remember the final scene of "Chinatown" Or this version: Jeff
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Post by 12piecebucket on Jan 31, 2012 11:12:44 GMT -5
Is this where you want peoples hands relative to the plane line at p5?
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