follow through and weight transfer?

[birlyshirly]

So, too much lateral movement on the downswing is a prime cause of a hip stall. And there's lots of emphasis, via the squat move, and the chi line, on a fairly "pure" rotational movement.

So what should happen on the follow through? Is a balanced finish, weight on the left foot, either over-rated, cosmetic, or just something that happens post impact?

Or should there be "enough" lateral movement early in transition to finish balanced on the front foot, but no more than just enough?

[Jeff Martin]

Jan 27, 2012 12:39:30 GMT -5 birlyshirly said:

So, too much lateral movement on the downswing is a prime cause of a hip stall. And there's lots of emphasis, via the squat move, and the chi line, on a fairly "pure" rotational movement.

So what should happen on the follow through? Is a balanced finish, weight on the left foot, either over-rated, cosmetic, or just something that happens post impact?

Or should there be "enough" lateral movement early in transition to finish balanced on the front foot, but no more than just enough?

birly-

Yes, there is a targetward sacrum move at the start of the downswing, but not necessarily a very big one: even Kelvin admits to placing too much emphasis on the "closed hip slide" in earlier writings. Kelvin talks about it a bit in this video lesson:




Jeff

[birlyshirly]

OK - so Tiger's rotating there, and at impact his left leg is clearly angled back from the target. But he's going to finish with his weight balanced on his left foot, isn't he?

So, is getting up onto the left foot for a balanced follow through just cosmetic - or is it a consequence of solid mechanics into impact?

In other words, if I'm working on a more rotational downswing and I find myself falling away from my left foot in my finish - is this something to worry about? Or a sign that I'm on the right track?

Maybe with enough reps, instinct will kick in with enough lateral movement post-impact to finish in balance. But the learning emphasis should be on not having the lateral move happen too early.

[walther]

My limited understanding was that releasing the lordosis after impact would put you into your finish and back onto your left side.

w

[gmbtempe]

Jan 27, 2012 12:58:10 GMT -5 birlyshirly said:

OK - so Tiger's rotating there, and at impact his left leg is clearly angled back from the target. But he's going to finish with his weight balanced on his left foot, isn't he?

So, is getting up onto the left foot for a balanced follow through just cosmetic - or is it a consequence of solid mechanics into impact?

In other words, if I'm working on a more rotational downswing and I find myself falling away from my left foot in my finish - is this something to worry about? Or a sign that I'm on the right track?

Maybe with enough reps, instinct will kick in with enough lateral movement post-impact to finish in balance. But the learning emphasis should be on not having the lateral move happen too early.

same problem when doing this, good question.

[Jeff Martin]

Jan 27, 2012 12:58:10 GMT -5 birlyshirly said:

OK - so Tiger's rotating there, and at impact his left leg is clearly angled back from the target. But he's going to finish with his weight balanced on his left foot, isn't he?

So, is getting up onto the left foot for a balanced follow through just cosmetic - or is it a consequence of solid mechanics into impact?

In other words, if I'm working on a more rotational downswing and I find myself falling away from my left foot in my finish - is this something to worry about? Or a sign that I'm on the right track?

Maybe with enough reps, instinct will kick in with enough lateral movement post-impact to finish in balance. But the learning emphasis should be on not having the lateral move happen too early.

birly-

I think Anina was having this problem, which Kelvin addressed in this lesson:



Jeff

[birlyshirly]

So using Snead as the model, his front hip - but not his CoG, looks to be over his front foot at impact. His stance doesn't look as wide as Tiger's, but relative to his front foot, he appears to have moved more targetward than Tiger into impact.

Both Snead and Tiger obviously turn supremely well - but are you talking about a range of acceptable lateral motion somewhere between Tiger and Snead, so long as you have that left leg continuing to rotate?

[golfdad]

birly,,,not seeing your swing is a minus since I don't know for sure what you are saying, but I would like to add that Kelvin likes an uninterrupted complete hip turn and from working with my kid, I feel there is a threshold in term of left lower limb weight loading that beyond which the complete turn becomes physiologically impossible. In other words, too much weight or too early weight into the left side, the hips cannot fully turn anymore. What may happen then is that the right hip will start wrapping around the left hip, which is a setup for a stall. Check with Kelvin to be sure but my understanding is that he wants to think of the rotation as a revolving door centered in the body, not left side hinged.

In the case of my kid, she used to feel that when she hit the ball she was standing on one leg (left). Now, the feeling is that she is attacking the ball standing on both feet.

I am pretty sure what I just said does not exactly answer your question,,,somehow:)

just want to add one more thing: she does not think of weight transfer anymore from the legs' perspective. In fact, she is trying to stay centered for as long as she can in that squat and then the arms' energy brings her out of the squat into the left side, not by choice or planning, but by inertia or momentum.

[Jeff Martin]

Relative to the left heel, you see some variation, but not a lot, among the greats who rotated really well. Snead may be more "stacked" on the left side than Hogan:







Young Jack Nicklaus "looked" like he moved further toward the target than Hogan, but he actually replanted his left foot:



Much of the "slide" is actually his left heel and left leg being repositioned three to four inches closer to the target. Not so much hip slide if we use the replanted heel as the reference point:



Tiger looks a little more left than Dustin:



John Oda and Lucas are about the same:



Jeff

[Jeff Martin]

Rear views are pretty helpful to get a sense of the correct movement: Lexi stalls, Jamie doesn't:






Rory: a little move toward the target, then the sacrum reverses course and pulls away from the target.





Jeff

[surfcity]

Yes, it might be helpful to think that as soon as the transition starts, the sacrum, left hip and left shoulder are all connected and moving very fast away from the target; right from the get-go. Think about moving away from the target. When you run out of ROM, you'll snap your thighs together late in the follow-through and be perfectly balanced on the outside of the left foot, spikes, hopefully metal, showing their teeth.

[birlyshirly]

OK. I think everyone is saying much the same - that rotation is good, and slide is bad. I agree - and I think Jeffy's pictures clearly back this up. It does look to me that Snead is further left than anyone else pictured (but possibly not so far left as I can get...)

But, but, but - I still have this question. What are the likely causes/fixes for a spin that leaves your balance so far behind your left foot at the finish that you fall backwards?

In Anina's lesson above, it looked like she kicked her right leg into IR too early in the downswing. And her hips are certainly turned well towards the target by impact - see 0:57.

So, is the real underlying problem too much hip turn TOO SOON in the downswing, and running out of range of motion approaching impact?

And the cure then to hold ER rotation in the right leg into a good squat?

I think, maybe, my thesis is that if you don't slide too soon, and you don't rotate too soon, then you can continue to pivot AND move laterally through impact to a balanced finish.

[kelvin]

[birlyshirly]

Thanks very much Kelvin. That's extremely helpful, and clear to me now.

[golfislife]

i take it there would be a little more shift on to the leftside with an irion shot or a ball off the ground.