|
Post by golfdad on Jan 19, 2012 9:13:11 GMT -5
I was going through some postings on Manzella site today (to follow up the CP wrist thingy) and saw this post #113 where it showed David Tom's swing sequence and the last picture (Tom in yellow shirt), at impact, caught my attention. It showed a driver hitting on a ball, presumably at impact, but Tom's hands were in front of the club head. Is this inconsistent with normalization, because that look suggested more of a drive and hold look...with the right wrist angle retained quite a bit? www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16660-calvin-peete-analysis-12.htmlsorry, I don't know how to copy that particular picture and re-post it here.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 19, 2012 10:38:09 GMT -5
I was going through some postings on Manzella site today (to follow up the CP wrist thingy) and saw this post #113 where it showed David Tom's swing sequence and the last picture (Tom in yellow shirt), at impact, caught my attention. It showed a driver hitting on a ball, presumably at impact, but Tom's hands were in front of the club head. Is this inconsistent with normalization, because that look suggested more of a drive and hold look...with the right wrist angle retained quite a bit? www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16660-calvin-peete-analysis-12.htmlsorry, I don't know how to copy that particular picture and re-post it here. I really don't understand the concept but wouldn't you have to measure the loss of right wrist bend in the proceeding frames before and past impact? I thought the concept was less to do about hands location at impact but that the right wrist unbends into impact and just past so that the club quickly lines up with the left arm? I wonder how much of this is different than what Iacas post talking about the "5th accumulator"? thesandtrap.com/t/44717/is-there-a-5th-power-accumulator
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 19, 2012 10:39:13 GMT -5
below is golfdad's image. process for inserting into post is right click on photo, copy image url, paste into post and highlight, click the "image" incon that is right above the "angry" smiley face. Or click the icon first and then past in, either way works.
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 19, 2012 11:40:50 GMT -5
golfdad- As usual, great question. This is just more of Manzella's "do as I say, not as the best ballstrikers, including the only one I teach, do". This picture says it all: Toms has rotated so well that he can't flip: that is a TEXT BOOK drive/hold release. And look at his stats (from Richie's 2011 PGS ebook). He exemplifies the strengths of a body rotating drive/holder: excellent with the driver and on long approaches: Advanced Total Driving: 12th Danger Zone (175 to 225 yards): 1st!!! Safe Zone (125 to 175): 12th Interestingly, his ballstriking stats deteriorate quite a bit as he gets closer to the hole: Birdie Zone: (75 to 125): 91st Perhaps he needs to work on "powering down" and quieting the body, like Steve Stricker, who is 4th in the Birdie Zone (but just 80th in Advanced Total Driving and 95th in the Danger Zone). Here they are both hitting wedges: Toms gets his hands much higher and has more body turn and wrist cock: boy, is he gonna bust it! At left arm horizontal, David's hips have already opened to the target, Stricker's remain closed: Toms continues to rotate fully, Stricker's body has fallen asleep: If I hadn't snipped the frame just as the ball is leaving the club, you'd think that was Stricker at address; David is facing the target: How many Trackman sessions do you think it will take David and Manzo to figure out how to "power down" David's wedge swing??? Jeff
|
|
|
Post by gatorgolf on Jan 19, 2012 12:06:43 GMT -5
I think its a big stretch to say that Brian is actually "teaching" David toms. I dont think hes teaching him anything. Toms has had a great downswing for years, and it seems like its not at all similar to the out toss and line it up, and jump stall stuff that Brian talks about. I think its obvious from those pictures that David has a great pivot and rotation through the shot, and its very different than Lexi and Luke and some of the other players they talk about alot. I remember reading David did to some work with Geoff Jones, who i think advocates more of a one plane hogan type release that Toms seems to use.
|
|
|
Post by compassgolf on Jan 19, 2012 12:17:57 GMT -5
you can say that about ANY tour player.....
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 19, 2012 12:52:15 GMT -5
you can say that about ANY tour player..... Hi compass! Welcome to jeffy golf! Just a friendly reminder that we want ANY opinion to be backed up by evidence. Sure, I understand that yours was just a throw away comment. And I agree with it! No biggie at all. But we just don't want our threads cluttered with unsubstantiated opinion. We want evidence that our forum members can judge themselves. I expect that means there will be far fewer post here than other boards, but that way we'll avoid 170 page threads that are impenetrable! Onviously, I'm not trying to scare you or anyone else away: I'm actually hoping we'll attract members because we keep non-substantive posts to a minimum. There are plenty of other forums for that. Hope you understand and keep posting! Thanks, Jeff
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 20, 2012 14:41:49 GMT -5
Watch out, folks, compassgolf is that notorious mischief maker from the Land of Manz, none other than Mike Finney. We'll see how he does here where you actually need to back up your opinions with solid evidence, not bluster and snark.
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 20, 2012 15:02:26 GMT -5
This one is so bizarre that it probably deserves its own thread, but I'll just post it here. Bman issued another chest-thumping manifesto about what a great teacher he is in the "Calvin Peete" thread on his site. In it he recounted how David Toms came to have such great rotation in his swing, a critical component of his rock-solid impact and stellar driving and long approach stats. The funny thing (or maybe the "unbelievable thing", or the "mystifying thing", or the "stupefying thing") is Bman now REGRETS making that change: Ladies and gentlemen, you can't make this stuff up. The man has drunk so much of his own "new release" Kool-Aid that he can't even recognize that he should be taking credit for one of the best features of Toms' swing. But, instead, it is "something that to this day I wish I didn't put in". I don't think David's bank account regrets that Bman "put" it in. The whole mess is here (see Reply # 178): www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16660-calvin-peete-analysis-now-w-page-18-blog-post-brian-manzella-18.htmlJeff
|
|
|
Post by compassgolf on Jan 20, 2012 16:55:00 GMT -5
hey jeffy....thanks for the warm welcome and i hope you have years of success in your desire to spread the word of kelvin - happy golfing!...
do i need pictures for the above?
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 20, 2012 18:58:40 GMT -5
hey jeffy....thanks for the warm welcome and i hope you have years of success in your desire to spread the word of kelvin - happy golfing!... do i need pictures for the above? Mike- You're welcome. The admissions committe wanted to ban you outright ("douche bag" kept being repeated), but I said so long as he obeys the rule, he can post here. Pictures? No, read the rule again: pictures or other such evidence are needed to back up opinions, not expressions of one's feelings towards others. Jeff
|
|
|
Post by gatorgolf on Jan 21, 2012 1:11:09 GMT -5
This one is so bizarre that it probably deserves its own thread, but I'll just post it here. Bman issued another chest-thumping manifesto about what a great teacher he is in the "Calvin Peete" thread on his site. In it he recounted how David Toms came to have such great rotation in his swing, a critical component of his rock-solid impact and stellar driving and long approach stats. The funny thing (or maybe the "unbelievable thing", or the "mystifying thing", or the "stupefying thing") is Bman now REGRETS making that change: Ladies and gentlemen, you can't make this stuff up. The man has drunk so much of his own "new release" Kool-Aid that he can't even recognize that he should be taking credit for one of the best features of Toms' swing. But, instead, it is "something that to this day I wish I didn't put in". I don't think David's bank account regrets that Bman "put" it in. The whole mess is here (see Reply # 178): www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16660-calvin-peete-analysis-now-w-page-18-blog-post-brian-manzella-18.htmlJeff I just read Brian's post and i couldnt believe that. Why would he regret trying to stop David's hip stall? And what's wrong with a "continous pivot through the ball"? I think GMBTempe pictures above of Toms are phenomenal, i love the way he pivots and rotates through the ball, and gets body very open, with rotation like that its no coincidence thats he's one the best ballstrikers on tour. I know he's not one of the longest hitters on tour but I couldnt imagine how anyone couldnt like David's rotation through the ball, unless youre an advocate of a stall and flip release.
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 21, 2012 17:59:34 GMT -5
You're welcome. The admissions committee wanted to ban you outright ("douche bag" kept being repeated), but I said so long as he obeys the rule, he can post here. Jeff that's funny, "full retard" has come up a lot recently in regards to you.....but this is your board.....terrorize it up! Mike- I've deleted your post (quoted above) for violating the forum rule requiring evidence. Try again. Repeated violations may result in loss of posting privileges. Jeff
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 21, 2012 23:41:56 GMT -5
It would appear that Toms's is very far from Manzella's direction on going normal. You would imagine that BM may be trying to get this look out of his swing. This is the prototypical look of a TGM preferred release. Maybe it works but would not fit optimal. Its pictures like this that makes me question if I am understanding what he is wants to see in going "normal".
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 22, 2012 18:27:49 GMT -5
It would appear that Toms's is very far from Manzella's direction on going normal. You would imagine that BM may be trying to get this look out of his swing. This is the prototypical look of a TGM preferred release. Maybe it works but would not fit optimal. Its pictures like this that makes me question if I am understanding what he is wants to see in going "normal". I think 12th in Advanced Total Driving and 1st in Danger Zone approaches is pretty close to optimal for David Toms' "power swing". The only thing he could use is more clubhead speed and stalling and flipping probably ISN'T the best way to go for that! With Toms, Trackman tweaking is probably the least dangerous thing Manzella can be doing with him. Let's hope they stick to that. Jeff
|
|