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Post by walther on Jan 26, 2012 11:53:34 GMT -5
Below are 2 swings from last night. One is 97 mph, the other 100 mph. I want to drive home the message about a point made recently about one of Kelvin's moves. Can you tell which swing produced the 100 mph speed? What do you attribute it to? I like this game -- I'd put my money on swing 2 being the 100 mph swing. It looks like the lag was retained a bit more and you have a better P6 position. w
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 26, 2012 12:15:09 GMT -5
I've got to say it is swing 1 where she hits 100: after swing 2, Anina looks at the SwingSpeed radar and doesn't react. In the first swing, the clip ends before she can react. I assume she was jumping all over the place when it hit three digits, so that's why golfdad cut it off there!
Jeff
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 26, 2012 12:20:20 GMT -5
I thought 2 as well.
Here is a question, on these micro moves, we are now conscious of them from studying the articles, the videos, and the forums but is there a way to categorize the moves and tie them to more conventional elements of the golf swing? Is it just to random for each individual to think like that?
For example it seemed like I got more external rotation of my right knee by flaring my right foot back and starting with slightly more knee flex.
For example it seems like I get more thoracic extension on the backswing by a tilting left move as I make the back swing.
I guess thats how I am wired, good or bad.
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Post by golfdad on Jan 26, 2012 12:29:33 GMT -5
Hey guys thanks for the response,,,perhaps I will reveal it after couple more responses.
Gmb,,,after the posted swing analysis by Kelvin on my kid, he followed up with an email with suggestions on how to promote the right knee ER. It falls on the similar line as what you are trying,,,to preset it in that direction. (but I am not sure about the thoracic part since I don't follow due to insufficient amt of knowledge)
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Post by walther on Jan 26, 2012 14:17:27 GMT -5
For example it seemed like I got more external rotation of my right knee by flaring my right foot back and starting with slightly more knee flex. For example it seems like I get more thoracic extension on the backswing by a tilting left move as I make the back swing. I guess thats how I am wired, good or bad. Ditto for me on both of these points. I had to add "tilting left" (Not actually tilting left but the SnT concept of left side bend) on the backswing to get thoracic spine extension. I also have/had reverse hips and would end up with the sacrum moving towards the target at the backswing... A very sorry position from which to start down this path. I also added a bit of more upright posture to keep the weight off my toes and a flared left foot. w
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Post by golfdad on Jan 26, 2012 19:36:36 GMT -5
Actually swing #2 was 100 mph,,,Do I know why for sure? No, but if you review those 2 swings, it seems that with swing #2 she had a more pronounced squat: entry into the squat is balanced, through the squat is steady and coming of the squat with a timed thrust. Perhaps that has something to do with it but I am not sure. Anyway, no big deal. Jeff owes each of us $1 M. (when I first reviewed those swings, what Jeff said came to mind immediately,,,I moved because the sound of impact startled me on that one) Today, the silly girl had a blast. Before we went down the basement, we agreed that she would try to do 10 swings over 95 mph. This is what the first one read: So the first one was 110, one swing at 95 and the rest above 100 (but could never match 110 again) Last couple swings at regular speed:
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Post by Jeff Martin on Jan 26, 2012 20:50:38 GMT -5
Actually swing #2 was 100 mph,,,Do I know why for sure? No, but if you review those 2 swings, it seems that with swing #2 she had a more pronounced squat: entry into the squat is balanced, through the squat is steady and coming of the squat with a timed thrust. Perhaps that has something to do with it but I am not sure. Anyway, no big deal. Jeff owes each of us $1 M. (when I first reviewed those swings, what Jeff said came to mind immediately,,,I moved because the sound of impact startled me on that one) Today, the silly girl had a blast. Before we went down the basement, we agreed that she would try to do 10 swings over 95 mph. This is what the first one read: So the first one was 110, one swing at 95 and the rest above 100 (but could never match 110 again) Last couple swings at regular speed: Be careful golfdad: you are going to have posters like Kevin Shields and cwdlaw223 over at Manzella's telling the world that you are "delusional" about Anina's clubhead speed because those devices aren't accurate and "overstate" swingspeed because they aren't Trackman, just as they refuse to believe that this swing registered 109 mph: Anina has picked up at least 20 mph, I've picked up at least a dozen. Jesse Pettersen picked up 25 mph and set the ballspeed record at 220 mph, Lucas picked up 30 yards. All Bman can claim is that the someone named "Robert" picked up "some speed". You know how I feel about that: And David Toms ranking 181st in clubhead speed at 106 mph? We don't hear much about that. Anina will be dusting him soon. Jeff
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Post by golfdad on Jan 26, 2012 21:18:35 GMT -5
If they do that, I will report them to my kid's school principal for bullying and their names will be announced on the PA system! All I can say is that my kid is making progress beyond my expectation, the reason being I was expecting her to progress under her old swing/system and with her new swing, her potential is being realized much faster and better than I can ever anticipate. Sure we worked on it, but with Kelvin's material and your on-going encouragement, she has made real, documented progress, not necessarily for others to see, but herself to experience, that if she chooses the right approach, things can be manageable if not fun. She is good to start out with, but lucky to have bumped into helpful folks like you. There is no doubt that these have been the best couple months of her golf life. Finally she gets to address her issues instead of hiding them under the carpet as long as she does well on the course. Sooner or later her issues need to be addressed and as we have seen often enough, to do it later is no fun!
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Post by golfdad on Jan 27, 2012 8:01:27 GMT -5
So here is the 110 hit. Just want to touch on her mentality going into it. We usually discuss before each shot different variations of swing thoughts depending on the situation or issues from previous shots. 1. Form a good squat, please, I beg you, ice cream afterwards (which imo she did not do that well with this swing,,,I felt the squat, esp right knee ER is a bit rushed, but the overall motion seems fluid,,,perhaps timing plays a role as crucial as a solid execution of motion?) 2. The lag is forever. ( Don't actively hold or maintain the lag, but assume that the lag will never release, as if hitting through the ball with the lag still intact, which of course never happens since the lag will have to release on its own. But the key is that her body/subconscious mind knows when better than her conscious mind. How the wrists act or react at impact is out of her control so to speak; they react only to the action of her body, hip and legs. A good release is a reflection of a good overall body action.) 3. What clubface? who cares since it will square itself anyway. (respect the the general rules of physiology and reap the benefits of confidence and trust in oneself) Here is a fun experiment: show the most precious piece of china you can find in the house to your kid... Then, tell her that you will gently toss it to her and ask her not to catch it. Don't catch it. Before she is done processing this puzzling proposition, toss the precious, breakable china to her. What will happen next? You both watch the china breaks into pieces by her feet or she catches the china in a reflex? Why not let our reflex handle the interface between lag and release? What do you think this phrase will do to a student: the better players have a superior ability controlling their club face? It's absolutely true, isn't it? But do we consider how a student receives it and processes it and acts on it?
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m2bzz
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by m2bzz on Jan 27, 2012 8:57:22 GMT -5
Thanks to Jeff and Kelvin, my younger one is honored and privileged to take several online lessons from Kelvin. I have just submitted these 2 clips to Kelvin for another critique. I was planning to do it outside this weekend but the weather looks bad, so basement we went but the quality of the tape is bad. Since I am not good with computers, I will just ask him to post his analysis directly here for everyone's viewing, since some of you may be interested in her progress as well as his approach. To quickly recap. She is 11 yo and a proficient golfer, but as with everyone, there are always issues to deal with. The challenge is whether we have the time to work on it,,,or, perhaps more importantly, the courage to climb another peak. She is not interested to pursue golf seriously, which is absolutely okay by me, but, as with everything else in her life, I expect her to give a good effort in doing the right thing. I happen to believe with her current swing, the stronger she gets, the faster she swings, the more she will hold back because,,,because she is already starting to do so the past year:) She feels that she can't stop the flip of the wrists if she goes all out. We realize that she is a big time staller because she has a strong tendency to push to the left side and spin around the left leg. During this winter off season, I feel strongly that she needs to give Kelvin's ideas a solid try. Since everyday in her life she listens to my crazy ideas anyway, she participates in good spirit. In the past several lessons, Kelvin made it plenty clear about her issues and how to rid of her bad tendencies. But online lesson has its challenges because it is not hands on. So on a daily basis, we went down to the basement and try this way and that way in order to get Kelvin's ideas in place. Not easy, no real quantum jumps but with time, things start to clarify a bit and her body starts to feel the right feel a bit. There are surely a lot of moments of frustration on her part and mine since she tries hard to please and I can be quite short at times:) As one violin teacher used to say: if we learn slowly, we forget slowly, too:) Things I try to remind her currently are: don't jump off the right foot, right elbow tug in and ext rot, lateral bend, turn hip completely through, etc So here are the 2 clips from today. Let's see what Kelvin has to say. If i may ask.....when you do an online lesson.....does she do it by herself or with you.......I will follow up when i am sure of your answer thanks
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Post by golfdad on Jan 27, 2012 9:09:00 GMT -5
Hello M2BZZ,,
Kelvin asked me in the onset whether I use Skype which I don't. I assume he meant to arrange "live" sessions if needed.
All we did is to send in couple swings each time and Kelvin would analyze them and send back his work.
With his suggestion and direction based on his swing analysis, we went back to work and then a re-eval.
We are shy and low maintenance folks :0
I think for some if some issues are not clear or lingering, a live demo will help a lot. Hope that helps.
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m2bzz
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by m2bzz on Jan 27, 2012 9:23:25 GMT -5
hi golfdad
I am curious....your daughter's name is Annina.....I hope you know what it means!!....DO YOU?
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Post by golfdad on Jan 27, 2012 9:26:44 GMT -5
hi golfdad I am curious....your daughter's name is Annina.....I hope you know what it means!!....DO YOU? If you tell me it means troublemaker or headache in another culture or language, I won't be surprised a bit ;D Actually, it spellls,,,ANINA.
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m2bzz
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by m2bzz on Jan 27, 2012 9:34:02 GMT -5
ACTUALLY.....IT MEANS
ANSWER MY PRAYER....G-D HAS FAVORED YOU
ANNNA.....BUT CLOSE ENOUGH
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Post by golfdad on Jan 27, 2012 9:36:58 GMT -5
Thanks,,,I knew something is off all these years, hehe.
Just curious,,,are you a golfer yourself or are you here for a family member?
Take care!
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